There was (and still is) a book called The Inner Game of Tennis, and while I never read it, I remember one of the claims the book made. The claim was that the more one thought about playing tennis (and playing it well), the better one played tennis in real life. The parallels have been drawn in many other sports and indeed, in many other facets of life. So why not woodworking? I am convinced that my workbench will be far better, and the construction far smoother, because of my ruminations. With that, here are my latest thoughts, with questions in bold face:
- I think I need to build a bowsaw or frame saw before starting my bench. I think that will be a much better way of cutting the legs (and later, the benchtop) to size. My ryoba is great, but is so thin it could easily wander while cutting a 6″ square leg, or a 2′-wide benchtop.
- I’m not sure in what order people build benches, but I get the idea that it’s better to build the base and then the top. For me, I’ll have to do a little of each. The center of my bench will be made up of the the thickest stock I can find (probably only 3″ or 4″ laminated to about 12″ total). I’ll have to see what that total thickness is before figuring out how long my short stretchers will be. So here’s what I’ll do: First I’ll build the legs, then I’ll laminate the thick stock for the middle, then I’ll build the stretchers, and lastly I’ll laminate the three outer boards (8/4) on each side of the top (with mortises for the leg tenons).
- Where should I position the legs on a 6′ bench? Should I allow 6 inches of free space on each end? Or 1 foot? Or other?
- Do I need to add anything to my F-style clamps? They only have smallish pads unlike parallel clamps. Will they be sufficient for laminating my 8/4 stock for the top, or for the 12/4 stock for the legs? Or do I need to use cross pieces to better distribute the clamping pressure?
I hope to buy all the lumber this week!
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June 2, 2009 at 1:03 pm
craigambrose
If by “F-style clamps” you mean this sort of thing (http://shop1.actinicexpress.co.uk/shops/Jandsfasteners/images/catalog/17l-5.jpg), then you’re quite right, this is going to cause you problems. I had real trouble with mine when gluing up bench top laminations. The issue wasn’t the need for parallel clamps, it was just one of needing a *lot* more clamping force than these sort of clamps can provide. You don’t need to run out and by expensive parallel clamps though, a decent set of pipe clamps should do the job.
I did use my F clamps for keeping the laminations flat while gluing by using a some straight bits of wood in pairs, above and below the laminations and clamped. This stops them being out of line, and minimizes the planing needed afterwards, but of course greatly increases the clamping force required to bring the lamination glue joints together.
June 2, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Eric
Yes, Craig, those are the ones. Crap, I don’t really have any other solutions here! I haven’t seen anything except the F-clamps in Malaysia, and I have almost never seen anything longer than the 14″ or so models (fortunately, I did grab four 4-footers when I saw them).
So I’ll just have to do the best I can, I suppose. Maybe I could double up the clamps on each clamping point, and that will help. Or maybe use a frame with wedges? I’ve seen that done somewhere. What did they do in the 18th century?
June 2, 2009 at 1:56 pm
craigambrose
Maybe clamp the laminations one at a time. I followed someone’s advice when building my bench top (not a Roubo, but similar), and clamped the top laminations in pairs. Then, I put them back onto the jointer and thicknesser as a laminated pair to correct any movement out of square, and then glued these pairs together.
This technique didn’t work very well for me. The trouble was, I went from having single laminations which were thin enough (maybe 2″) to flex slightly when clamped, to double laminations which had no ability to flex, or at least not with the clamping pressure that the F clamps supplied. Thus, when it turned out that even after coming off the jointer for the second time they still weren’t perfectly flat along their length (my bench is 8 foot long), and so my bench has a tendency to be a bit gappy between every second lamination. In hindsite, I should have glued them one at a time (or all at once), so that the clamps could flex the wood enough to eliminate the microscopic gap.
I realise that you’re planing by hand (I usually do, I just wimped out for the workbench), so possibly this problem will be even more pronounced. Don’t be disheartened though, clamping them one at a time for gluing is probably a good solution. If you’re using PVA, then gluing the entire bench top in one go is likely to be impossibly (based on the time available), although if you’re using hide glue or something then you could give that a shot.
June 2, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Eric
Thanks for the encouragement. One at a time sound good to me. I had mentioned that my middle pieces were going to be as thick as I can find…hmm, I’m wondering if I should reconsider that in light of what you’re saying.
So which would take more time and effort – prepping and laminating 6 pieces one by one, or prepping 3 thick pieces to be dead flat and laminating them? Decisions, decisions… After what you said, I’m leaning towards more laminations of thinner pieces.
June 2, 2009 at 2:12 pm
craigambrose
What do you normally do when you’re jointing (by hand) the edges of panels for lamination? There’s the trick of folding them like a book, and planing the two edges at once so that even if your angle is off, the two angles will add up to 180 degrees. Of course, if your bench is 4″ thick then you’ll need a hand plan 8″ wide to do that. Still, perhaps the theory still holds if you take some diagonal swipes of the plane.
I certainly don’t find that thinner laminations are bad though. As long as they are wide enough to take your dog holes (if you’re having any), then the thinner laminations actually mean less warping on your bench. Of course, thicker laminations is probably more historically accurate for a 17th century bench (maybe, I have no idea)
June 2, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Gye Greene
Bar clamp work-around: I sketched out an idea here: http://gyegreene.blogspot.com/2009/06/inexpensive-quasi-bar-clamp.html
YMMV.
–GG
June 2, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Gye Greene
Regarding #1 (which was a musing, not a question — but, I’m compelled to comment anyhow): I know some WW-ers swear by frame saws. I’ve dabbled a bit, and found them hard to control (but, maybe with practice…).
How ’bout just a Western-style saw? Or another, larger, Jp. saw?
You’re talking crosscutting, not ripping — right?
–GG
June 2, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Eric
Yes, crosscutting. I suppose the desire to make a frame saw is partly because of the galootiness of it. But yeah, I could just buy a piece of junk at the hardware store and sharpen it up to be a decent enough saw. Good point. I can enjoy more galootiness in the future.
June 2, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Gye Greene
#2: Yeah, my impression is that you use the frame of the bench-in-progress like a mutant sawhorse for building the top.
#3: Having the legs set in seems to be the tradition, doesn’t it? Seems like having it set in would allow the later addition of a funky sliding vice (wagon vice) — although maybe with the Roubo-style it’s not an issue.
I forget: You have a copy of The Schawarz’s highly excellent Workbench Book — right? If not, you should strongly consider having a read, while you’re still in your planning stage…
–GG
June 2, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Eric
I still would be nervous building (and finishing) the base without knowing if the top would line up right with the legs. I do not want to have to handplane 1/8″ off a 6′ board! So I think I’ll stick with the partial assembly until I’m sure it’ll all fit right.
I’m still waiting for someone to suggest a figure on how far in the legs should be set. But maybe the lack of a suggestion means it’s really not all that important, so long as they’re far enough out that my bench wouldn’t tip over if I sat on the end of it.
And no, I don’t have Schwarz’s book yet. I’ve read Landis, and I’ve read much of what Schwarz has said on blogs about benches, but I’ve yet to read his book. It’s on my list! (I suppose I should fast-track it, huh?)
June 2, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Luke Townsley
I assure you that planing 1/8 inch off a six foot board won’t seem all that bad compared to the work you will go through for the rest of the bench!
I would definitely not set the legs in more than a foot. Six inches sounds fine to me. If you are right handed, it is the left leg that needs to be close enough to the end of the bench so you don’t tip it over when you are planing. The right leg could be set in further.
I built (and use) a 6′ bench, but it is in the English style and the legs splay outwards, so they join the top more towards the middle, but still give me end support.
As far as the pipe clamps, you might think about shipping in the ends and going to an industrial supply store to get some black pipe. I found some in the Dominican Republic at a store that sells gasoline pumps for industry and farmers. They threaded them for me.
If you have to use the small clamps, use more of them and you might try keeping the amount of glue you use to a minimum and make sure your glue is not old. You will also need to make sure the boards are carefully jointed so that the clamps aren’t having to pull them together.
If you are handy with knots, you might be able to make some sort of setup with rope and some strategically placed blocks to get the glue up done. I don’t know what it is called, but I used a knot recently that acts sort of like a block and tackle to cinch up the rope. It will really tighten up and hold a lot of pressure.
June 7, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Gye Greene
Frame saw: I acknowledge and respect the Galooty-ness of it.
But, if you aim is just to crosscut — yeah, I’d just get a standard crosscut saw. As you probably know (at least in the U.S. and Australia), the standard saws at the hardware store are the “heat-treated, pre-sharpened and can’t re-sharpen” saws.
Links to three places that do used tools (and, I think, mail-order).
http://gyegreene.blogspot.com/2009/04/will-get-wooden-dado-plane.html
Handplane 1/8″ off a 6 foot board: Well, you know what the Schwarz would say about that: Scrub plane, baby!
Schwarz and Landis books on workbenches: They complement each other nicely; if you’re planning on making any mods to an existing design, I’d read the Schwarz book, as it gets into the Theory behind good handtool WW benches. Plus, he has some good tricks/step-by-step instructions for making the two benches featured (including the Roubo!).
Wow! – this blog posting has elicited a lot of comments!
–GG
June 7, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Eric
Hey Gye, Real quick question: What do you mean you can’t resharpen store-bought “standard” saws? Do they not respond to filing? If you can’t resharpen them are they generally considered good enough? I suppose I really only need it (for now) to do four legs and two sides of the bench top, so if it doesn’t last too long that’d be okay. I can get them for about $5 at the local shops. Thanks for your feedback… Eric
June 8, 2009 at 5:54 am
craigambrose
I wouldn’t entirely discount your plan to build a frame saw. I used one to build my bench, and the sheer size of it (about 700mm) really helped. I ordered mine from Australia (I’m in New Zealand) at http://www.mytoolstore.com.au/tension-complete-p-612.html, and that might be a reasonable good buy for you too, particularly if you just bought the blades and made the frame. I can’t say enough how wonderful these saws have been (I bought two frames and four different blades), and at a significantly lower cost than if I had bought an equivalent set of one piece western style saws from a modern reputable manufacturer.
As for getting cheap saws at the local hardware shop, Gye is absolutelly correct, you almost certainly can’t sharpen them. The metal is hardened to a degree where it holds a nice sharp edge, but is too hard and brittle to file. These sort of saws usually (but not always) have black teeth. A better bet over here at least is to pick up an older saw and refurbish it.
June 8, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Gye Greene
Eric,
What Craig said.
Most modern Jp. saws are the same: the teeth are heat-treated (and thus, black or dark blue), which means they keep their sharpness longer — but once they’re dulled, they’re too hardened to sharpen.
The saws at the hardware store are designed for tradespeople: disposable.
Nothing **wrong** with disposable; would suit your needs.
Alternatively: post a query/request on the OldTools list — that you’re off in Asia, and thus fleamarket Western handsaws are hard to come by — does anyone on the list have a ”user” handsaw they’d be willing to sell you (and you’d pay for international postage as well, of course…).
You could also frame your request by asking what they recommend for one’s first Western-style crosscut saw, given your intended use (workbench legs?), and your existing arsenal of saws.
Inset of legs: Herr Schwarz’s book shows 15 inches in from the ends (for the outside surface of the legs), for a 96 inch long benchtop. (However, I can’t find the actual written figure on his schematic, so 15 inches is my assumption that the drawing is to scale…)
–GG
June 8, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Gye Greene
Oh: To clarify — 15”, 96”, as mentioned above — is for his Roubo. Has an entire chapter on building one, including step-by-step and clever tips/suggestions.
–GG
July 6, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Gye Greene
Was pondering (for some reason) the “benchtop clamping” issue, and remembered that another work-around is to drill holes all the way through, and then use a series of threaded rods, with washers and nuts on the end.
The threaded rod keeps all the boards aligned, and the nuts create the pressure.
–GG
September 14, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Gye Greene
Another clamp work-around: this time based on a sketch of what rustic Australians used to use (making do with what was available).
http://gyegreene.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-clever-home-made-clamp.html
–GG
September 15, 2009 at 4:21 am
Eric
Hey Gye, that is interesting!!! I wonder if it’d really be strong enough. Eric
September 15, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Gye Greene
Strong enough: Worth a test, eh?
Using 2″ x 2″s — you’d think so.
Using 2″ x 4″s — for sure!
–GG